a podcast from Theopologetics Part 2

Episode 55: Eternal Fire.

Dr. Edward Fudge joins “Theopologetics” to discuss annihilation as an orthodox alternative to the traditional view of hell. This episode contains part 2 of the interview in which I present Edward with common traditionalist challenges to his view. Listen to episode 54, “Burn It Up,” in which we focus on Dr. Fudge’s book and the doctrine of annihilationism or conditional immortality.

a podcast from Theopologetics Part 1

Episode 54: Burn It Up.

Dr. Edward Fudge joins Theopologetics to discuss annihilation as an orthodox alternative to the traditional view of hell. This episode contains part 1 of the interview in which we focus on Dr. Fudge’s book and the doctrine of annihilationism or conditional immortality. Listen to episode 55, “Eternal Fire,” for part 2 in which Theopologetics present Edward with common traditionalist challenges to his view.

What Happens when we die: Between the Testaments (Part 2)

(This was preached at  Hamilton Church of Christ in New Zealand on the 10th April 2011 )

(Luke 16:19 – 31 & Rev 6:9 – 11)

Introduction

Last Sunday we talked about what God might have meant when he said to Adam and Eve “you will surely die” in Genesis 2:17. We considered all that we could on this subject by doing searches on the relevant words such as, death, die, spirit, soul, heaven and hell to conclude that nowhere in the OT do we find support for the notion that a human being’s personality leaves their body to continue on consciously, somewhere, after death. This point is more widely accepted by biblical scholars today than what we might realize. McNamara writes – “The general consensus [that of contemporary biblical scholars] is that the OT rejected any natural or innate immortality.”

Martin McNamara, Miltown Institute of Theology and Philosophy, Dublin, Ireland (1997).

However, there are two places, that I am aware of, that have been used from the OT to challenge this assertion which I should just quickly make comment on before moving into considering what the Jews believed in the 400 year period that separates the Old and New Testaments.

In the first of these two places, Isaiah 14:9, we are told that sheol, or the grave, is all a-stir by the rousing of the spirits of the departed to greet the king of Babylon who will be brought down there.  The chapter is not to be taken literally but is not untypical of Isaiah and the prophets in personifying lifeless items or places. Trees clap their hands and deserts feel the emotion of gladness etc. Just as the King of Babylon is said to have been dwelling in the heights of heaven during his reign (v. 12) he is now said to be laid down on a bed of maggots in sheol (v.11). This is non-literal, poetic, prophetic language.

The second place in the OT which might challenge the view that the dead are dead is found in 1 Samuel 28 where we read of King Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the deceased Samuel. We must remember that in Deuteronomy 18:11 Israel was warned to never attempt to use a medium to try and contact the dead.  Why would that be?

In the chapter Saul has a conversation with this “spirit” which we are told throughout the chapter is Samuel back from the dead. It is noteworthy that the medium never calls him Samuel only Saul does. In verse 19 “Samuel” tells Saul that the next day he will die at the hands of the Philistines in battle and join him in sheol. Clearly God had already abandoned Saul and would not reveal his will to him in any way no matter how hard Saul sought it. Therefore, in attempting to solicit the dead do we think that this really was Samuel rather than an impersonating spirit? According to the account in Chronicles when Saul was wounded the next day he in fact committed suicide by falling on his own sword.

Apart from these two questionable references the dead are dead in the OT until the resurrection of the dead. [Read more...]

What Happens when we die: Surveying the Old Testament (Part 1)

(Genesis 2:4-17)

(This message was preached at Hamilton, New Zealand, Church of Christ on the  3rd April 2011)



[Read more...]

Hell is a scary idea but God can rescue us: Jeff Vann on Nahum 1:1-8 (AUDIO)

An oracle concerning Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum of Elkosh. 2 The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD is avenging and wrathful; the LORD takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies. 3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, and the LORD will by no means clear the guilty. His way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. 4 He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; he dries up all the rivers; Bashan and Carmel wither; the bloom of Lebanon withers. 5 The mountains quake before him; the hills melt; the earth heaves before him, the world and all who dwell in it. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? Who can endure the heat of his anger? His wrath is poured out like fire, and the rocks are broken into pieces by him. 7 The LORD is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble; he knows those who take refuge in him. 8 But with an overflowing flood he will make a complete end of the adversaries, and will pursue his enemies into darkness. Nahum 1:1-8 ESV [Read more...]

Radio Interview with David

Sean Finnegan  interviewed  David Burge for the  Truth Matters website on the topic of Objections to Conditional Immortality.

The radio interview can be downloaded here on www.afterlife.co.nz

Conditional Immortality in the 19th Century

The doctrine of “Hell” was once a vital tool in scaring people into making a decision for Christ during the “Great Awakening” of the eighteenth century. However, from the nineteenth century forward it has been a psychological obstacle to the success of the Gospel!

The nineteenth century advances in the disciplines of science, philosophy and religion loosened the grip of tradition from searching minds; finally, hundreds of years of tradition looked set to be overturned. Yet, on both sides of the Atlantic it was strangely suppressed by those obsessed with conformity to tradition rather than a commitment to both biblical truth and a society whose world view had changed!

Click hear to hear our 2008 Conference address: The Story of Conditional Immortality in the 19th Century.

The Kingdom of God (Part 1)

Here is the audio of the fifth in a series of sermons I am preaching at my church (on Conditional Immortality and specifically here, the Kingdom of God as the hope of the righteous). The sermon is entitled, “The Hope of the Righteous: The Kingdom of God on Earth” (Part 1).

As I have said, it is less directly related to Conditional Immortality – and I know not all conditionalists agree with the main thesis: that the hope of the righteous is still a resurrection to eternal life in the kingdom of God on earth. It does however show that nowhere in the Old Testament are the righteous told to hope for “heaven at death.”

In some of the past sermons in the series I tried to make the file size smaller by “clipping” some of the gaps. My son pointed out that I am now talking at 1000 miles per hour. This time I decided to put the larger file up.

I have also put up the larger versions of all the previous sermons so they can be listed to without the increase in my already rapid rate of words per minute. Here are the links again:

Sermon 1: The Exclusive Immortality of God.

Sermon 2: What is A Human Being? or Mortal But Made in His Image.

Sermon 3: Is Death Death?

Sermon 4: The Fate of the Wicked.

What is the Fate of the Wicked? (Audio)

There is a “Far Side” cartoon titled Nerds In Hell, where there are a few devils pictured, some flames, some sweaty folks, and two nerds in glasses, one of whom says to the other: “Hot enough for ya?”. It says nothing about the Biblical view of hell but much about hell in popular culture.

Here is the audio of the fourth in a series of sermons I am preaching at my church (on Conditional Immortality and specifically here, the Biblical view of hell). The sermon is entitled, “The Fate of the Wicked”.

It is not possible in one sermon to discuss every Scripture relevant to the Bible’s teaching on hell but I have attempted to give hit on most of the major points. Hence the sermon is a little longer than the others and this file is a little bigger than the others (4 MB).

By the way this is post number 100 for this site. Enjoy.

Is Death, Death? (Audio)

Hear is the audio of the third in a series of sermons I am preaching at my church (on Conditional Immortality and specifically here, the Biblical view of death). The sermon is entitled, “Is Death Death?” What I was getting at in the title I probably never really got to in the sermon. I think the traditional view of the immortal soul going to heaven at death really does away with death altogether. The “real” you never actually dies. On the other hand, according to the Bible, death really is death. The whole person really does die.

When I originally preached this sermon I must have pushed the wrong button on my recording device. Consequently I had a large audio file with nothing on it. My solution was to re-record the message, sitting at my desk in the relative comfort of my desk chair.  .

Mortal But Made in His Image (Audio)

Here is the audio of a sermon I preached entitled “Mortal but Made in His Image”. It is the second of a series of sermons I am preaching at my church on “Advent Christian distinctives” (Yes, I belong to the AC family of churches), once again focusing on biblical anthropology.

As I have said, this is probably the least distinctive of the AC distinctives, something around which there is a growing consensus in Christianity: that human beings are thoroughly mortal, though made in the image of God.

The audio has been edited to remove a lot of the interaction between myself and the congregation.

Not everyone in our church wants to “star” on the internet.

The Exclusive Immortality of God and Our Conditional Immortality

Woody Allen didn’t preach the sermon at our church this week. I did however quote him on the subject of immortality.

Further to my last post, technology did cooperate and I am able to put up on this site the audio of my sermon on the exclusive immortality of God and our own conditional immortality.

The aspect of our present mortality will be developed in future weeks, beginning in two weeks (after Fathers Day, which is next Sunday).

Again I hope to make the audio available soon afterward.

Athanasius, Atonement and Annihilation


Recently Glenn Peoples posted a podcast on his blog that basically consists of the paper he presented at our Association Conference in 2007. The podcast can be found at http://www.beretta-online.com/wordpress/. The entry that contains the audio clip is entitled Episode 018: Athanasius, Atonement and Annihilation. It was posted on the 5th of October. You can listen online, or right click on the “download” link to download the mp3 file. Thanks Glenn.