Moses on the souls of animals by Jefferson Vann FDTL 48

Long before Plato ever said anything about the human soul, the Old Testament writers presented a consistent biblical anthropology. Augustine was biased toward platonic philosophy, even going so far as to claim that Plato brought him to God.1 But there is no reason for us today to be biased toward Plato’s (or anyone else’s) philosophy. We should first seek to understand what God himself has revealed about humanity before inquiring of any human speculation.

The Hebrew word Moses used that our English bibles sometimes translate soul is nephesh, a word that suggests something that breathes. In fact, the Ugaritic and Akadian cognates also mean “throat.”2 Moses’ use was consistent with an understanding that a soul is a living breathing being. [Read more...]

  1. B. F. Cocker, Christianity and Greek Philosophy (New York: Carlton & Lanahan, 1870), 10. []
  2. See The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, 1935a Nephesh. []

Bell’s Base Cards

Rob Bell does a masterful job of shaking the foundations of the modern theology of human destiny in his new book entitled Love Wins.1  He exposes the fact that much of what people say about salvation and human destiny is not based on the Bible, therefore does not hold up to the scrutiny of direct questioning. He dares to ask direct questions – many of them.

His tactic is similar to that of knocking down base cards in someone’s house of cards. A house of cards can be an enormous thing, but it is only as strong as the first few cards one lays out. Those base cards serve as the foundation. If they are stable, one can build fortresses out of flimsy cards upon them. But topple those base cards and the entire thing falls apart. Bell’s identified some flimsy base cards in modern theology: the idea that only professing believers will go to heaven and its corollary that all others will suffer in hell forever.

He attacked those familiar base cards by appealing to scripture after scripture to show that the Bible addresses very different issues. He wanted to show that the whole of modern theology about human destiny was built upon assumptions that do not come from the Bible. He accomplished that mission. Each chapter in the book identifies a presupposition, and then proceeds to topple it by going to the text of scripture and comparing the presupposition to what scripture actually says. In short, Bell does theology and he does it well.

Nevertheless, Bell’s book is destined to be much maligned. He has taken on subjects which are practically taboo for evangelical Christians. “Heaven when you die” and “conscious eternal suffering for the lost” are concepts that are too holy for most good church people to investigate. Expect Bell to be branded a hopeless Universalist. Expect retaliation. Expect The DaVinci Code all over again.

…And rightfully so. Any good theologian worth his or her salt makes a difference. Bell has swung a pendulum, and one should expect the thing to swing back in the other direction. Paul told the Corinthians that “there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.”2  Bad theology can mobilize good theology.

With that in mind, let me tell you where I think Bell has it wrong. He spends numerous pages showing that the gospel message is not about going to heaven when you die – then he puts the saved in heaven when they die. He can do no other, because for Bell (and most of his opponents) the human soul has to live eternally somewhere. Bell sweeps away all of the scriptural evidence that he has amassed against the concept that heaven is a destination. In the end, he says what he has been arguing against.

He agrees with his opponents that all human beings are immortal, except that, unlike them, he argues that their immortality gives human beings hope for restoration to God even after their bodies die. He argues from scripture that God is love and therefore never gives up on his own. So, as long as there is life, there is hope. He argues for the concept of future probation on the basis of two premises: God never stops loving, and human beings never stop living.

Herein is the problem: none of Bell’s opponents want to deny either of those premises. They believe that God is both loving and just. They want to agree with what the Bible says about his love, but not forget that it gives equal time to his wrath. When they talk about Judgment Day, they envision that it will be just that – a day in which God will judge humanity, and determine the eternal fate of everyone. They cannot envision a Judgment Day that extends to however many years and centuries needed to purge humanity of all sin and rescue all. Hence, they must believe that death seals the fate of all.

The all important doctrine that Bell and most of his opponents agree upon is the concept of innate immortality: that all humans are born immortal. That doctrine will lead Bell’s opponents to insist on eternal conscious suffering in hell for the lost. It leads Bell to insist that a loving God would never condemn people to such a fate for a limited life of sin; therefore he must give opportunity for restoration.

Allow me then – in Rob Bell fashion – to suggest that it is that presupposition that keeps both Bell and his opponents from seeing what the Bible says about the destiny of the lost. The Bible says that only God is immortal.3  Immortality is a promise from God that Christ will give to the saved – it is not an innate characteristic of every human.4   For anybody to live anywhere forever, they must have eternal life. Eternal life is promised to the saved only.5

What, then, is the destiny of the lost? The God of justice who gave us his truth in his word has decreed that the lost will be destroyed.6  Since the wages of sin is death, they will die.7  They will be appropriately punished according to the decree of a God who is both loving and just, and then they will be no more.8  They have been granted one life to live. That one life is a gift of grace from God. Nobody deserves to live forever. God is under no obligation to give unbelievers an eternal life, either to suffer, or to repent. He is sovereign, and if he has decided that the wages of sin is death, no theologian has the right to convert the sentence.

Bell wrote a book about a victory. He envisions an eternity in which all sin is forgiven, all wrongs are righted, and love wins. He is absolutely right. Love will win because God will win. God will win because he is God, not because he is love. His love and justice work together to produce a heaven and earth without evil. Our participation in that victory is not a given. Some will not make it. That is what it ultimately means to be lost. In the end, God wins. Reader, where do you stand before God? Don’t take his patience for granted.

  1. Rob Bell, LOVE WINS: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived. (Robert H. Bell, Jr. Trust, 2011). []
  2. 1 Corinthians 11:19. []
  3. Romans 1:23; 1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16. []
  4. Romans 2:7; 1 Corinthians 15:53-54; 1 Timothy 1:10. []
  5. Matthew 25:46; John 3:15-16, 36; 4:14; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68, 10:28; 12:25; Acts 13:46, 48; Romans 2:7; 5:21; 6:22; 1 Timothy 6:12; 1 John 5:11; Jude 1:21. []
  6. Matt. 10:28; 22:7; Luke 17: 27, 29; 20:16; 1 Cor. 3:17; 6:13; 15:24, 26; Heb. 10:39; 2 Peter 2:12; Rev. 11:18. []
  7. Matt. 21:41; John 5:24; 8:51; Romans 6:16, 23; 1 Cor. 15:26, 54; James 5:20; 1 John 3:14; Rev. 21:8. []
  8. Psalm 104:35; Ezekiel 26:21; 27:36; 28:19. []

Around the web March – Hell is Really Hot!

The subject of hell has hit the headlines this week because of the coming release of
Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived by Rob Bell
Here is his promotional video:

[ youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwfqBNICf4]

In Christianity Today www.christianitytoday.com/ct/article_print.html?id=91120

New York Times www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/us/05bell.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Rob%20Bell&st=cse . I quote:

“Much of the book is a sometimes obscure discussion of the meaning of heaven and hell that tears away at the standard ideas. In his version, heaven is something that begins here on earth, in a life of goodness, and hell seems more a condition than an eternal fate — “the very real consequences we experience when we reject all the good and true and beautiful life that God has for us.”

While sliding close to what critics consider the heresy of “universalism” — that all humans will eventually be saved — he never uses the term”

I’m not sure if Rob is going to come down on the side of annihiliationism or universalism or any particular “side”. I’ll have to read the book. Someone who has wrote: www.gregboyd.org/blog/rob-bell-is-not-a-universalist-and-i-actually-read-love-wins/

“..given Rob’s poetic/artistic/non-dogmatic style, Love Wins cannot be easily filed into pre-established theological categories (viz. “universalism” vs “eternal conscious suffering” vs. “annihilationism,” etc.). I am certain some readers — especially those who position themselves as the final arbiters and guardians of evangelical truth — will try to do this (obviously, they already have!).  And, having read Rob’s book, I can almost guarantee you that they will find isolated quotes to justify their labels. As I interpret Rob’s work, however, it would be misguided and unfair to apply any of these labels to him..”

I think it is great that the topic is being brought into the open and people are discussing hell again. It’s time really thought about what they believe on this topic, whether it fits with what the Bible says and whether it fits with the God they know.

Rob Bell will be speaking live http://lovewins.eventbrite.com/ Monday, March 14, 2011 from 7:00 PM – 8:00 PM (ET) You can also participate live online. Use your Facebook account to join this provocative conversation by going to www.livestream.com/lovewins and login using Facebook Connect. {If I have my calculations correct that is 1pm Sunday March 13th?-ed}

Thank you to Edward Fudge for letting us know about the flurry of activity in the blogosphere and the media. Please see many resources on subject at his website

http://www.EdwardFudge.com/written/fire.html

as well as our own:

http://www.afterlife.co.nz/?s=annihilation

Resurrection Hope by David A. Dean In Tamil

Resurrection Hope by David A Dean In Tamil
Please note:
Published online with the permission of Advent Christian General Conference who reserve all rights to the material.
Resurrection, His and ours by David A Dean ( Tamil Version)

Around the Web Feb 2011 Part 2

Death is non-existence

When a man dies, his spirit (that which animates him) departs and he goes down to Sheol. As he was formed from dust, so shall he return to it again. He shall surely reside there until the day in which God causes all, both righteous and wicked, to rise from their graves. In that day He will judge mankind and the righteous will inherit everlasting life. Whereas the wicked shall be judged, cast into the lake of fire, eventually be consumed, turn to ash, & be as though they never were. This is the mindset of a Hebrew. Everything else is either Greek philosophy or Roman superstition.

Two Covenant Seminary Profs on the Doctrine of Hell Support for the book “Hell Under Fire”. Warren Prestidge discussed this book:  Hell Under Fire: in his  conference address , part 2 Hell under fire Part 2, Part 3 to be published in From Death to Life Iss 48 due March 2011.

Around the Web Feb 2011

Advent Christian Blogspot a blog by John Roller has Sidney Hatch’s Why I Believe in Conditional Immortality as well as other wonderful articles/resources.

Atheolous writes about Under the Altar (Rev. 6:9)

UNDER THE ALTAR:

The souls that were under the altar were in the grave, under the literal altar of the literal temple.

I can hear a chorus of voices exclaiming, “That can’t be. Dead souls cannot speak!”. Of course, that is true. Souls that sleep the sleep of death while awaiting the resurrection cannot speak. But the souls in John’s vision did speak.
I believe that pride keeps most Christians from accepting the truth concerning soul sleep (conditional immortality). It is a flat-out stubborn refusal to accept the wages of sin.

Martin Luther defense of soul sleep from Reformed Thinker

Scripture everywhere affords such consolation, which speaks of the death of the saints, as if they fell asleep and were gathered to their fathers, that is, had overcome death through this faith and comfort in Christ, and awaited the resurrection, together with the saints who preceded them in death.—A Compend of Luther’s Theology, edited by Hugh Thomson Ker, Jr., p. 242.

and also from Reformed Thinking Calvin’s Refutation of Soul Sleep ( Calvin had differing opinion to Luther!) A Brief History of Conditional Immortality, an article published on this website might be of interest.

Early Christian Beliefs ( see link for extensive footnotes)

The earliest post-apostolic Christian confessions of faith do not refer to heaven or hell, but do mention the resurrection. Most writers from the first to the seventh century believed in an immortal soul and eternal torment in hell.

Soul sleep or soul death was occasionally understood to be followed by eternity in heaven or hell subsequent to the resurrection.Conditionalism was preserved by early Christians such as Arnobius, and among Syrian Christians such as Aphrahat, Ephrem, Narsai,and Jacob of Sarug.

Syrian Christianity inherited both soul death and soul sleep from earlier Jewish teaching.

If you have found any links of interest to readers please leave a comment.

Conditional Immortality Around the Web January 2011

John Wenham: An Appreciation

Because it is such a minority view in evangelical circles, I was interested in observing how Wenham’s adherence to this position practically impacted his pastoral ministry and I also wanted to learn how he responded to those who held to the traditional Augustinian view of eternal conscious torment.  Alas, Facing Hell turned out to be somewhat falsely advertised.  Though his developing views on the topic of judgment occasionally come up in the course of Wenham’s life story, it is not until page 229 that conditionalism becomes a central focus, and then, the section only lasts for 35 pages.  The author had described the genesis of this book in the preface as arising from the following intention:

I believe that endless torment is a hideous and unscriptural doctrine which has been a terrible burden on the mind of the church for many centuries and a terrible blot on her presentation of the gospel.  I should indeed be happy if, before I die, I could help in sweeping it away.

Sadly, I would say that this intention failed to guide the book that resulted from it, though his short defense of conditional immortality in Facing Hell is quite cogent and well-stated, and will accordingly serve as an asset in the history of theological support for this position.

http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/35527-we-dont-go-heaven-when-we-die.html A Conditional Immortality discussion at Talk Jesus Forum

from Edward Fudge’s gracEmail
DEAD SOUL SYNDROME — This is the title of a new book by gracEmail subscriber Jay Altieri, that provides thought-provoking insight for anyone interested in thinking anew about heaven and hell. Steven Clark Goad says: “This book is a must read . . . will force you to think outside the traditional ecclesiastical box. The . . . premillennial . . . viewpoint . . . doesn’t detract from this well-researched, well-documented, and challenging manuscript.” I agree with Goad! For more information, go to  www.deadsoulsyndrome.com

On the topic of books please consider purchasing Warren Prestidge’s excellent book Life, Death and Destiny.

New Articles at http://occupy-till-i-come.webs.com/deathandhell.htm

Any other links of interest please put them in the comments

The Logic of Faith

Devotional Thoughts from Psalm 46.

Republished from marmsky.wordpress.com with permission

The LORD is the creator, the One who brings justice, setting prisoners free, healing the blind, lifting up those who are bowed down, loving the righteous, watching over the sojourners, upholding the widow and the fatherless, reigning forever. It is only logical to put our trust in a GOD like that. It is not logical to put faith in a mere human leader, because he is mortal. When mortal man’s breath departs, he returns to the ground from which he was formed, and his plans to save others perish with him (4).

LORD, help us to see the logic of trusting in you alone. Only you have life to give, because only you forever live.

The Stars and the Future by Jefferson Vann

Reading George Aldridge’s The Star Evangel one cannot help but get caught up in the majesty of the idea. Aldridge suggests that the ancient people on the earth before Noah’s flood had an Evangel (a gospel message) of their own. It was not written on paper. It consisted of symbols that one could see in the patterns of stars in the night sky.

Those patterns (according to Aldridge) speak of our future, but not of a person’s individual future (as a horoscope claims). No, those patterns speak of God’s plan for the future of humanity. Aldridge sees in those ancient symbols a series of events that include:

Redemption of man from the grave.
Judgment to come.
Inheritance and Reward.
The Conflict between good and evil.
The destruction of the Enemy, and of all who are on his side.
The inauguration of the kingdom by the return of the Redeemer.
(Page 159)

What is of special interest to Aldridge is that this message in the stars “should be so prominently occupied with great questions of eschatology” (Page 155). Long before any of these events began to be seen in history, God gave us a peek into what he was going to do about humanity’s problems. The Star Evangel was not so much concerned about what people think or teach as it was whose side they were on.

Aldridge sees in those pictures in the stars a correction to how modern Christians often look at their future. Because the stars do not suggest that our future consists of “a habitation to be forever enjoyed in the heavens, the earth having passed from existence” (Page 156). Instead, our future is about this present universe, redeemed and restored by the LION (Leo) king who returns to rule eternally.

Aldridge also insists that the antediluvian race knew one thing about themselves. Their memory of the “test” that Adam and Eve went through in Eden “yielded the historic knowledge of his mortality” (Page 154). It was this dreadful awareness that created in them the thirst for redemption and restoration. The patterns of the constellations speak of how God intends to bring that restoration about.

Not everyone is ready to believe that our inheritance is written in the stars. But the Bible sings the same tune. Our hope of eternal life is not based on our supposed innate nature, it is based on God’s grace, lived out and died for by his chosen Redeemer-King.

“When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory” (Col.3:4).

The  book  is available online : The Star Evangel by George Aldridge

————————-

The views in this post are not necessarily those of CIANZ.

Life Only in Christ

Devotional Thoughts from 1 John 5:10-12.

Republished from marmsky.wordpress.com with permission.

It is a serious thing to reject God’s testimony about Jesus Christ. To Reject the gospel that Christians proclaim is to accuse God of lying. The Gospel can be simplified to this: God has given eternal life as an inheritance for all those who believe in his Son. Those who do not believe do not have the hope of eternal life.  Satan has convinced some that no one has this hope because there is no eternal life. He has deceived others into believing that they need not exclusively trust Jesus because everyone is eternal. Between these two lies is the truth of the Gospel. Life is only in Christ.

LORD, may we never waver from the truth of your Gospel.  May we always proclaim our hope in Christ alone.

resurrection joy, resurrection prayer, resurrection peace

Devotional Thoughts from John 16. Republished from marmsky.wordpress.com with permission

The difference between sorrow and joy for the disciples would be the resurrection (21-22).  That event would give them courage to pray in Christ’s name to the Father and have fullness of joy because of that divine connection (23-24). That event would give them courage to face a world of tribulation but still keep their inner peace in Christ (33).

LORD, help us to cling firmly to the resurrection event – that we never lose our joy, our confidence in prayer, or our peace in Christ.

Enhanced by Zemanta

Sheol: The Old Testament Consensus

A new article

Sheol: The Old Testament Consensus by Jefferson Vann has been published to our articles section.

Enhanced by Zemanta

Bible Standard May 1879

Bible Standard May 1879 is now available online.
Everlasting Punishment by Rev. H Constable from this edition has also been republished.

Everlasting Punishment a quote from Rev. H Constable

Republished from page 186 of the Bible Standard May 1879

The following remarks, penned by the Rev. H. Constable, are worthy of attention :-
” There are some who tell us that the eternal deprivation of a blessed life is not an eternal punishment. They think the punishment is over the moment that the pains of the second death have ceased to be felt. What do such reasoners mean? Is the punishment of death inflicted here by human laws upon criminals over when the criminal is dead? No; it has then only begun. It lasts in all its force far every year, every day, every moment of that life of which it has deprived the criminal. Else that death which all legislature has esteemed the greatest punishment, and which same men think too great to be inflicted even far the greatest crimes, is of all punishments the shortest and least. But such is not man’s judgment of death. He esteems it, and justly, the greatest, the sorest, the most lasting punishment he can possibly inflict. He thinks so, utterly irrespective of anything he may believe, with or without reason, will happen after death. Death is thus esteemed whether it is inflicted upon the good man or the evil. Death is thus esteemed by those who believe that rewards and punishments commence with the separate soul, or who believe that Hades is a silent land of sleep and unconsciousness far all, good and bad alike. [Read more...]

THE TRANSFIGURATION. Matt. 17:1-3. By Geo. A. Brown

Republished from pages 169-170 of the Bible Standard April 1879

This circumstance is frequently quoted to prove the Immortality of the Soul, or the conscious existence of man after death. We fail, however, to see why our opponents should use this event for such a purpose, for the following reasons :-

1. There is not a single word said about the immortal or disembodied spirits or souls of Moses, Christ, or Elias.

2. The Transfiguration did not take place to prove this doctrine.

3. Jesus Christ called it a Vision. For it is written that “Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man is risen from the dead.”-Matt. 17:9.

4. Jesus having so plainly told us that it was a Vision, we dare not treat it in any other way.

5. The Facts in the case all go to show that it was a Vision, for Jesus had not died, nor risen from the dead, neither had He been glorified, yet the vision presented Him as such.

6. Moses had been dead for some hundreds of years : therefore, he could not have been there unless he had been raised from the dead.

7. The Transfiguration presents to us a sublime photoqraph of the future, when Christ and His Church shall be glorified together. Elias being a type of the translated portion of the Church, and Moses a type of the resurrected ones, anti-Christ, the centre gem of the cluster, stands forth in His glory in this Transfiguration scene in which He will manifest Himself with His saints to the world, when He comes to take
His position as earth’s Ruler and Restorer. (2 Peter 1:16, refer.) [Read more...]

Links to us

http://atheolous.blogspot.com/ Thank you to Atheolous for linking to us under the heading ANNIHILATION & CONDITIONAL IMMORTALITY RESOURCES :-)
http://hil001.blogspot.com/2010/09/conditional-immortality.html Thanks for embedding Warren’s video in your article on The Doctrine of Conditional Immortality and listing this website as a resource

Conditional Immortality Around the Web December 2010

http://www.youtube.com/user/fleetwd1 has many videos eg

A series from Edward Fudge on Hell:

[Read more...]

A LETTER TO A GENTLEMAN ON THE CONDITION OF MAN IN DEATH. By HENRY CONSTABLE, M.A.

Republished from Bible Standard November 1878 pg 109-112

My DEAR SIR,
The substance of the following letter formed part of a lecture which I lately delivered on the great subject of Conditional Immortality. You were so good as to say that you thought it would be of use that it should appear in print, and I have much pleasure in complying with your wish.
Among the advocates of the doctrines of Conditional Immortality there is a very general agreement upon many, find these the most important points of our question. Mr. White, who more than thirty years ago stood up almost alone for this truth, and has lately given us his able work on “Life in Christ;” Mr. Minton, who has for many years endured obloquy and sacrificed his professional interest for what he knows to be God’s truth; and I who later in the day than either of these have entered to do my share of labour in the vineyard, are all of us agreed that fallen man has no essential inalienable immortality, and that consequently all who are out of Christ, and so continue, will perish, that is, will be destroyed and come to an end in the scene of future punishment subsequent to the judgment day. On this point-the greatest, I doubt not-we are, thank God, fully and heartily agreed. On this common ground of ours we stand with united front, alike opposed to the two great errors of the day-the Augustinian error which affirms misery for the wicked as long as the Eternal God Himself exists, and the error of Origen, who pictures in the future ages those who here were reprobate together with the fallen angels-all of them -at various intervals of time-brought back through pain and shame and chastening to God, to glory, and to bliss. Our common view of Conditional Immortality, as I understand it, condemns both these views, and condemns both of them alike.

[Read more...]

Conditional Immortality Around the Web November 2010

Luke 23:43 and Soul Sleep

“As I’ve indicated numerous times, I’m a physicalist. I don’t think that I’m an immortal ghost/soul living inside a body. I think that I’m a physical creature. Long before I encountered philosophy of mind or neuroscience, I became convinced that this is what the Bible teaches, making its teaching on human nature stand out like a sore thumb against the pagan Hellenistic theology of the first century…”

Questioning Hell?

However, it also takes a good deal of exegetical gymnastics to read eternal conscious torment into the passages that we have just studied. To come up with that doctrine we are going to have to come up with something more than what we have read so far. I am not sure that we are going to find it, at least not in the Bible itself. [Read more...]

OUR NEED AS SINNERS MET IN THE GIFT OF GOD. By W. Laing.

From pages 93-95 of the Bible Standard September 1878

In the first eight chapters of Paul’s letter to the saints at Rome, you will find a very comprehensive deliverance on this important subject. In most emphatic terms he describes the guilty condition of the whole family of man, and the completely adequate and gracious salvation which God has provided, and caused to be proclaimed in the gospel concerning His Son.

What renders the Apostle’s argument so invaluable to us is its infallible accuracy. He spoke by the Spirit of God; and his words are as true as though they had been uttered’ by Jehovah Himself. Let all ponder them with reverence, and receive them with faith. My wish, at present, is to call attention to one sentence in that grand discourse, which, in few words, states our condition as sinners, and the provision made for it by the God and Father of all :- [Read more...]